For International Men's Day, Jordan from MYNDUP sat down with Henry Nelson-Case, a lawyer and digital creator, to discuss why men's mental health remains so difficult to talk about - and what we can do to change that. This conversation is from our November Community Conversation, and you’ll find the full recording linked at the end.
Jordan: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jordan, and I head up the partnerships team here at MYNDUP. Today, we're diving into a topic that's incredibly important but often left unspoken: men's mental health. How can we open up conversations we typically avoid? How do we spot the signs when someone's struggling? And how can we create spaces where it's genuinely okay to talk?
I'm joined by Henry, a lawyer and content creator who speaks extensively about workplace wellbeing and men's mental health. Henry, thanks so much for being here.
Henry: Thanks for having me, Jordan. I'm really looking forward to this discussion.
What's brought us here?
Jordan: Before we dive in, let's set the scene with some context. Men's mental health is still something that often goes unsaid. The reality is that talking about mental health as a man doesn't feel comfortable or normal - it can feel intrusive or uncertain. Men are much less likely to seek help early, often due to social pressures around masculinity and that age-old phrase we've all heard: "Boys don't cry."
We started today's session with a poll asking how often people have conversations about their mental health. The results were telling: 27% said "not very often," whilst only 6-7% said "very often" or "all the time." The more frequently people have these conversations, the smaller the percentage becomes.
Henry: That doesn't surprise me at all. I don't always practise what I preach on this one either. It's a difficult thing to do.
How do we have these conversations we often avoid?
Henry: It's challenging because, as men, we often avoid these conversations due to various pressures. In my work as a lawyer, when you ask somebody how they are, they typically respond with either "I'm fine" or "I'm busy." We associate busyness with work, but we're not actually addressing the underlying problems or things happening in our lives that impact our day-to-day wellbeing.
November is a month where we really advocate for why men should be talking about their wellbeing. The research shows that when we're not having these conversations, men turn to substance abuse, alcohol abuse, and unfortunately, many men take their own lives because the pressures become so overwhelming.
What's interesting about men is that we generally find it hard to communicate how we feel. Have you seen the new John Lewis Christmas advert? It focuses on the relationship between a father and son and how difficult it is for us sometimes to communicate our feelings.
There was also a powerful Norwich City advert - two men sat next to each other at a match, with one constantly checking in on his mate: "Feeling good? Buzzing for this?" When you watch it, you think it's the quiet guy who's struggling with depression. But actually, it was the loud, happy, friendly guy. It shows that you don't always know what someone's going through. Sometimes the loudest, most joyous person in the room is the one struggling the most.
Jordan: That Norwich advert sent shivers down my spine when I first saw it. I've had cases in my life where my loudest, most jolly friends - the ones always up for going out, always laughing, always self-deprecating - were the ones struggling. It didn't come out for a good year or eighteen months that that was the case.
Henry: Exactly. So when checking in on your mates, don't use closed questions. If you have those friends who don't respond to WhatsApps for ages, you need to probe a bit. Follow up.
If you find it difficult to have these conversations, don't necessarily opt for a formal sit-down. I find it hard - if one of my mates said, "Let's go for a coffee," I'd find that situation unnerving. Going for a beer feels more comfortable, or even going for lunch or dinner. What's fascinating is that when I go for lunch with a mate, we won't sit directly opposite each other - we'll both sit diagonally because sitting directly opposite feels really personal and intense. It feels like we're going to be talking about deep stuff, and we're concerned about what other people might think.
If you keep it more casual - go to the gym with a mate, go for a long drive, go for a walk - sitting side-by-side is generally easier because you don't have that intense, opposite, direct situation.
Jordan: I completely agree. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've been one-on-one with a man at dinner, even with some of my best mates. What I've always found really comfortable is going for a walk in the park whilst grabbing a coffee. Rather than sitting there one-on-one, just keep yourself moving.
We've had some great suggestions in the chat too - playing darts or pool is always a good place to chat. Any sort of activity makes it easier.
Henry: Absolutely. As guys, it's a lot easier to have conversations when we're active, when we're doing something, when the focus of the event is primary and the conversation is just secondary. I'm generalising here, but women often feel more comfortable going out for coffee where the intention is to talk about what's been going on. For guys, the activity is the main event and the conversation is the byproduct. It's kind of the opposite.
Jordan: So true. I have a lot of friends who still play Xbox, and the thought of calling up one of my uni friends for a phone call is horrifying, but sitting on Xbox for a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon to have a chat? That's far more comfortable.
Henry: Exactly. And another thing - we often think we're really close with people we see frequently at the pub, but actually, we just see them in that capacity. If you've been on a run with somebody, you automatically feel better at the end. You're feeling really good, more connected to them, and that's where you can have actual deep, meaningful conversations. Not just 3am slurring about how much you love your mates after sinking a few pints - we've all been there - but conversations that can actually help our friends when they need us most.
Jordan: Exercise has always been the one for me. I've played rugby from the age of five, and whether it's playing rugby, run clubs, or gyms, it's always been focused around sport.
Where should these conversations happen?
Henry: We mentioned that the pub isn't necessarily the best place for these conversations. The reasoning is that alcohol is a substance that makes us feel numb and suppresses a lot of how we're actually feeling, or it can make us act in ways we wouldn't normally. Many men turn to alcohol when they're struggling, so having events outside that space can be healthier.
Of course, there are an increasing number of alcohol-free drinks now available - I'm always opting for an alcohol-free or low-alcohol beer. But if you're struggling with your mental wellbeing and you've turned to alcohol, taking you to the pub to talk about your problems isn't going to be the best environment.
We're seeing such a rise in run clubs, social clubs for men - someone in the chat mentioned Andy's Man Club, which hosts events around the country. There are gyms, gaming groups, Warhammer clubs - whatever you're into. These are all environments where conversations can happen.
Someone in the chat mentioned that a lot of these environments aren't necessarily confidential. Unless you're at somebody's house or on the phone, most spaces aren't going to be confidential per se, but they are public spaces in the same way a café is. Most people aren't focusing on you as much as you think they are - they'll be having their own conversations.
It's about being in an environment where you feel comfortable with the other person. If you guys regularly run or go on Sunday hikes, do it there. If you're in the car driving to the gym, that's a perfect opportunity: "Mate, you've seemed a bit quiet recently. Is everything okay? How are things going? Last time we spoke, your dad was unwell - is that all sorted?"
Jordan: I'm part of a run club in London on Saturday mornings. I'd known a lot of these people for about a year just from going to the pub with them. Then I joined the run club they were all part of for the last six months, and I realised I actually knew nothing about these people other than our pub chats. Having those conversations where you aren't necessarily surrounded by alcohol and just having comfortable conversations - I found out so much more about people.
Henry: That's quite indicative of a lot of male friendships, isn't it? They're so focused around alcohol. You think you're really close with these people because you see them so frequently, but actually, you just see them in that one capacity.
How do we spot signs of stress in ourselves and others?
Henry: I didn't have any therapy sessions until about a year ago. I've always suffered with stress and anxiety, probably from my GCSEs, but I didn't realise at the time that's what it was because nobody really talks about it. I developed quite a prominent twitch in my neck and arms - I'd just be sat there in the classroom twitching away, which was quite distracting. I got moved to the back of the classroom, and it got worse with A-levels.
Since having therapy recently, I've started to recognise physical symptoms I feel when I'm stressed and anxious: less sleep, more prone to eating sweet treats and sugar, feeling more sleepy and tired, more withdrawn, not wanting to do as many things. So I'm more aware now. If I've eaten a whole box of Jaffa cakes in a day, I'm probably not feeling great. Let's sit down and think, "Mate, what's going on here? Why are we feeling like this?"
It's sometimes more difficult to notice in yourself when you're just feeling off because you feel so consumed in your own life and everything that's going on. Whereas if one of your mates is seemingly more withdrawn, not responding to you, cancelling plans - you can be like, "Oh mate, is everything okay?" We've got more signs that this person's usual behaviour isn't their normal self.
Jordan: It's any sort of change that I've noticed. One example: I had a friend I lived with many years ago who was the tidiest person I'd ever met. Then one day that just changed. He stopped doing his washing up, clearing up after himself, his clothes weren't as clean - really small changes. Initially, it was a bit of frustration: "Come on mate, we're living together, start doing these things." But I noticed it was going on for so long that eventually we had a chat, and it turned out something was happening in his life that he just hadn't opened up about.
For me personally, sleep is the big one. The minute I start not sleeping properly, I know there's something going on in the back of my head. I have to have a proper breakdown of what's actually happening - whether it's writing it down or making a to-do list. It's those tiny little changes that are the signs.
Henry: Completely agree. As we've got on the screen here - changes in routine, irritability. If you or your mate is just being snappy at what would otherwise be silly things, you might think, "Mate, it's not that deep, chill out." But when you actually strip it back and see all the other things that have perhaps built up, you can understand why they snapped at this really small thing.
Adrian said in the chat that seeing it in yourself is hard because it's so gradual. It just creeps up. Your housemate who stopped with self-care and looking after himself - general hygiene and all these things just start falling away gradually over time because we get so tired, burnt out, and worn down. When we start feeling off, all our fundamentals - what we'd ordinarily term our non-negotiables - shift. Suddenly we're not going to the gym anymore, we're not eating healthily, we're ordering takeaway constantly or not eating at all.
Unless you're called out on it - when a mate says, "Are you sure everything's okay? What's going on?" - then you invite that conversation without making somebody feel like they've done something wrong.
Jordan: Yeah, it was an interesting one actually. I initially reached out to his girlfriend and asked, "What's going on here? I've noticed a bit of a change." She batted it away from me, didn't give me too much, just explained he wasn't doing too well. When I asked him directly, it was the classic "I'm fine, I'm fine, I just can't be bothered, I'm busy." But when I actually probed a bit more - and going back to your last point, it wasn't a hard push, it was just a little bit more than "what's going on" - eventually that's what got him to open up.
Henry: I find that when I speak to some of my mates or go on events - I went on a retreat not too long ago with L'Oréal with about ten or eleven guys I'd never met before - when we started talking about these things and got past the surface-level chats, we all felt comfortable. Even with my friends who I'm pretty close with and have known for years, when we start having these conversations completely sober, it's actually quite comforting. A lot of us are all feeling the same way.
There are pressures on us to be a certain way, to act a certain way, to look a certain way. Nobody's necessarily talking about it, or men aren't talking about it in the way that perhaps women do. Of course, there are so many pressures on women in terms of how they look and societal pressures, but that's not to diminish the fact that a lot of men also go through this - particularly with shows like Love Island and reality TV where social media pushes us to look a certain way. If we don't look like that or aren't into certain things, we're not a "good man" in the traditional sense.
When we start speaking about these things, for a lot of us, it's almost a relief that we can actually talk about this now.
Jordan: You always see it everywhere: "Men don't talk, men don't talk." But if you give men the space, a lot of the time they do talk. I've noticed this whether it's with friends or through workshops we've done at MYNDUP. We did a workshop with a company up in Nottingham, and I was a bit nervous going in - a stereotypical group of men from a traditional industry, I didn't know how interactive it would be. It took all of two minutes for one individual to start sharing their story, and then everyone just opened up. It was all about their kids, problems with wives, divorces, whatever it was. Once you give that space, it's very clear that men actually do talk.
Henry: Completely agree. There's this whole narrative that men don't talk, men need to speak more. But one thing is giving them the space to actually talk, and when they do speak, actually listening and dealing with it with compassion - not just shutting it down with "Oh mate, stop being a wet blanket" or "Man up, stop being a little baby, it's not that deep."
If I'm about to say something quite deep to a mate and I get shot down, I'm not going to say that ever again. I'm never going to speak about that topic to anybody. I'll just park it and deal with it myself.
Jordan: Definitely. I've seen that shift, I think, even in the last ten years across generations. My friends are much more comfortable now than they were five or six years ago having these conversations. But yeah, once you shut someone down once, they will never open up with that again. It's so clear.
Practical steps we can take
Henry: If we split it between what we can do for ourselves and for others - we spoke about noticing changes in ourselves. For me, when I start recognising that I'm falling off or not feeling 100%, or going back to unhealthy habits, it's about putting back in that routine and realising where I'm stepping out.
That doesn't mean if you're not feeling 100%, you suddenly wake up the next day and you've signed up to Hyrox, you're doing a half marathon, going to the gym, eating nothing but AG1 blends all day every day. It could just be something as simple as: you woke up today, you got out of bed before 8am, and you showered. In that moment, that could be enough for that day. Then as time goes on and you start feeling better, you implement more gradually. The next day, you've woken up, showered, got dressed, gone out for a walk. Over time, you can start building more on top of that.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Stop trying to rush everything, because if you suddenly try to do too much, you're not going to do anything and you're actually going to make yourself feel worse.
Jordan: Routine is such a key one, isn't it? But don't go from one extreme to another because it just won't maintain itself.
Henry: Movement as well - I know immediately if I've been inside for days on end because I don't feel great. If I just went out and got fresh air for ten or fifteen minutes, I immediately feel better the second I go out. Sometimes I go out without my AirPods just so I can actually listen to whatever's going on around me.
I also think it's really important not to beat yourself up and talk to yourself negatively. We've got compassion on the screen here. If you're not feeling great, don't beat yourself up about it. You've got a lot going on. How would you tell your mate who's going through exactly what you're going through to handle this? What would you suggest in terms of how they're feeling? Talk to yourself in that same way, which is hard - the classic talking to yourself in the mirror is difficult.
A big one is actually reaching out to somebody to say, "I need help" or "Mate, I'm struggling." As guys, we don't want to burden anyone. We just want to get on with things - “it is what it is” mentality. But actually, reaching out to someone, and the second you've told somebody a problem or something is going on - I don't know if you find this, but instantly it doesn't feel like that big of a deal anymore. It could still be something quite important, but it feels lessened because it's now shared with somebody else.
Jordan: Just getting it off your chest straight away always helps. In terms of not speaking badly to yourself, that's always such a key one. You'll have a big weekend of socialising, which often can involve a lot of alcohol, and you almost feel like you might as well give up on everything now. But it's just getting yourself back to that routine, giving yourself the space - you can have a weekend off routine, you can have a weekend to enjoy yourself, and that doesn't mean you've got to restart everything. Being a lot kinder to yourself is always such a key thing. Movement and routine are my two key ones here.
Henry: We spoke about this before the session, but whilst we're primarily focusing on men, it's not necessarily just a problem for men. People have partners, employers, family members who also know what the men in their lives are like on a day-to-day basis. If they start spotting signs or seeing differences, actually speak up. "Why has my brother, who usually just works his core hours of 9 till 6, suddenly become a workaholic working all day every day?" There's this sudden shift. Let's have a chat - is everything okay? If we're starting to recognise differences in the men in our lives, just check in and actually do something that can help create a change.
Jordan: It doesn't just focus on men. As a 27-year-old guy, whenever anything goes wrong in my life, the person I ring is my mum every single time. A lot of the time, I'll feel more comfortable speaking to my girlfriend or my female friends. This conversation isn't just for men - it's about creating spaces where everyone can support the men in their lives.
Henry: I'm the same. But then if I had a practical problem or a financial thing I needed to run by someone, it'd be my dad. It's similar with certain mates - I'll speak to my guy mates about certain problems and female friends about others. It's about having that shift in mentality to realise we can have these conversations that you wouldn't ordinarily reserve. If you're having relationship issues, you may feel more comfortable talking to a female friend to get a certain perspective. But if we can have these conversations more openly with our guy friends, it normalises them, makes them more comfortable, and makes them less difficult.
I also find that the second I open up about a problem or say I've got something going on, my mate or mates will then say, "Oh mate, actually this is going on for me right now" or "I don't feel 100% because of this." Suddenly we're all sharing with each other. As you mentioned earlier, it just takes one guy to actually start saying something.
Jordan: With social circles, if you're struggling with a certain problem, there's probably quite a high chance that someone you know of a similar demographic might be as well.
Questions from the community
We had some great questions come through during the session. One was about generational differences and helping parents to open up.
Henry: That's really interesting, navigating the parent-child relationship, particularly when it comes to mental wellbeing. Parents would have done what they could to raise their children in the environment they could, and they may have been conditioned to be a certain way because of how their parents were. Our parents were a particular generation, so they're less comfortable opening up.
But I think if we're quite open and encourage that from our parents, saying how we're feeling, they can model that behaviour - almost a flip reverse of learning from our parents. Now our parents can learn from us.
It's difficult because sometimes it's hard to change somebody who may be stuck in their mindset. But it could just be something so simple as checking in with parents. Not putting blame on anybody, not saying "You seem so stressed," but asking in a way that's compassionate, making them feel safe in an environment where they may have never felt they could talk about these things before because of all the other pressures - running a household, family, raising children, work. Talk to them in their capacity as just an adult, not necessarily in their role as a parent.
Jordan: One thing I've found with my parents particularly is that it’s kind of "share to be shared with." If I’m open myself, I typically get that back. If I just asked "What's going on, how are you doing?" it always pretty much got batted away with "I'm fine, I'm fine." But when I was a little bit more vulnerable and honest with the fact I'm probably not doing that well at the moment, it typically got answered with them being open back with me.
Henry: I agree. But again, it's about not putting pressure on somebody to open up who may not be ready.
Jordan: Another question came in about someone whose dad recently had a medical emergency. Every time they ask how he's doing, he says he's fine, but they can see a shift in his mental health. How do they approach him?
Henry: If you've directly asked and you're being met with a blocker or he's saying he's fine, I think it's more about letting that person know: "Okay, that's fine. I'm not going to pressure you into saying anything, but just know that we are all here and if you want to speak to any of us, that's great."
It could be that they don't necessarily feel comfortable right now talking to you specifically about it because maybe they don't want to burden you, which is typical of men. It may be that you help them find resources elsewhere, or their GP may be able to assist if you are concerned.
Jordan: You can only take it so far in terms of what you can actually do, but if you make it as easy as possible - "These are the resources that are there" - you don't have to know if that person's using those resources or having those conversations, but at least you know they have them if they need them at any point. You can be hopeful that if they do need them, they probably will reach out. It's that awareness around it - you can't force someone to do something, but you can give them as much opportunity to use that thing as possible.
We also had a question about whether we're hopeful that the current stigma around men's mental health is changing.
Henry: Yes, I think this session, for example, is evidence that we're making progress. There's still a long way to go, but I think we are slowly getting more comfortable talking. I know personally I feel more comfortable now than I would have five years ago talking about this, and I think with events like this, we are progressing in this space.
Jordan: Couldn't agree more. Before I joined MYNDUP, I couldn't have told you half the things I know now, and the shift I've actually seen has entirely changed my views and opinions on this. Let's face it, MYNDUP probably wouldn't have existed twenty years ago in terms of what we're doing now. So I think there is a very clear shift.
Finally, we had several people ask about individuals who may not have a bigger group of friends to go play sports with or go to the gym with, or who may feel a little bit more isolated.
Henry: I think generally men often have smaller social groups. I know since post-university, my friendship group has shrunk because you don't have immediate access to the same people all day every day. Friends move around the country.
There are a whole host of resources out there if you're feeling lonely or isolated, and you may not have family or friends close by to talk to. Andy's Man Club was referenced in the chat - there are a whole host of other platforms in your local community. There could be a five-a-side group, a darts league, a golf course. Whatever you're interested in, there is probably a group for it, or there are people in your area who enjoy what you do.
You're not going to immediately start having really deep conversations with somebody you've just met. But over time, as you keep showing up, you feel more comfortable with these people. You start getting to learn more about them, and that's when you start building these genuine connections.
Jordan: I always think it's that first step. My mum's a really good example of this. She's a single parent and she moved away to Devon where she knew no one - completely new environment. My mum's never played sports, she's not someone who'd necessarily go drinking at the pub. But what she did was join a tap dancing group and Women's Institute - two very different things. Now she's got a brilliant friendship group down there. It's probably the happiest I've seen her in years. She was someone who previously struggled with mental health.
It doesn't have to be the traditional male stuff - it doesn't have to be going to the gym or the pub or playing football. It can be completely different. Think about what you like, and there's going to be a club for it somewhere. You don't have to rely on those traditional things that men would typically do.
Henry: The first step is always the hardest, and especially when you're struggling with your mental wellbeing already, to take that first step is going to be arguably more difficult. But I think taking the steps and putting the foundations in to build yourself up to that point is a great way to start.
Final Thoughts
As we wrapped up the session, we wanted to leave everyone with a few key things to hold in mind:
- It's not about fixing, it's about showing up. As men, we're all very guilty of trying to find solutions rather than just holding the space where people can actually talk.
- Connection beats perfection. It's the honest, small moments that matter. Be compassionate with yourself and others.
- Don't just check in once and leave it. Keep the conversation alive. One chat won't solve everything, but it's how change starts.
- Men's wellbeing isn't just an issue for men. We all know the statistics about men and suicide. Real change starts with the small, honest moments of care. Actually listen when one of the guys in your life says "I'm struggling." Value that. Speak to them with compassion. Check in on them again in a few months' time: "Mate, I remember you said you had this coming up. How did that go? How are you feeling?"
- Normalise these conversations. Whether it's in the workplace, within your friendship groups, or within your families, we need to make it normal to talk about how we're really feeling.
As we leave today, in the run up to International Men's Day, maybe have a think about who you might reach out to - even if that just looks like a text. Let's keep talking, not just on men's day, but every day as we move forward.
Thank you for reading, and remember: you don't need to have all the answers. Sometimes, just being there is enough.
Click here to watch the November Community Conversation recording